Episode Transcript
Nina Huchthausen (00:05.646)
Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Make It Business Try podcast. My name is Nina and I am joined by one of my favorite MBT partners and that is Nat. Nat is a brand strategist and magician, real magician in her craft. And she works with large and small companies that are all in the health, wellness and B Corp space.
And she's also very much mission aligned with the makers business tribe on really helping those amazing companies that do good for the planet to be seen, be heard and get their product out to the masses. And she does it through the magic of branding. And in today's conversation, I would really like to delve as deep as we can into what branding really is, because it's not just a logo.
Yeah, it's not just a couple of colors on the page. There is way more to it. And I would really like to hear some stories from you, Nat, in which you've literally transformed small businesses from just kind of being looking okay.
They might have an amazing product, but if the packaging, the branding and everything that surrounds this product is kind of average, it's very hard to be seen. It's very hard for the masses to get picked up. And I know you've done some real magic in that space. So I am so looking forward to hearing all about that, why it matters, what branding is, and when I should literally get ready if I'm a small product based business and I want to get my product out there, when is the right time?
So if we can debunk that today and give people some real actionable simple steps of what they can do, and of course also how they can reach out to you if they're really, if they're interested in this or kind of feel like, ah, I should really get started, that would be fantastic.
Nina Huchthausen (02:23.438)
So welcome Nat and yeah, my very first question. Can you share a little bit about who you are and what kind of draw you into the space of branding? Yeah, well, firstly, thanks for the intro, Nina. That was, it's really nice hearing from someone else's perspective, sort of what I do. So thank you for that. A little bit about myself. I have been working,
I'm the NP creative for four years now. And prior to that, I was working in a creative agency as the head of their digital department. So that meant I worked on a lot of their applications. So apps and websites, a lot of UI design, a little bit of UX as well. So that meant that I was working a lot in uncovering how to best.
create functionality and apps that are sort of user focused. So figuring out what the best user experience was for these different apps and websites. And through that journey, I realized that I had a big love for strategy. And I also had a keen interest in branding. So as you can probably figure out just from what I've said through that.
I decided I wanted to move into more of a branding focused side of things. And with already having that strategic background through the previous creative studio that I was working at, it was quite an easy transition to moving into brand strategy and branding as a whole. With that said, I did complete a brand strategy and packaging course just to make sure that
My skills were aligned and slowly started freelancing on the side really for some small businesses, started building up a bit of my portfolio there. A lot of them being, well really just a mix of service and product -based businesses, but majorly they were in that sort of health and wellness, that lifestyle, purpose -driven businesses, which also then led me to continue to working with them and building what is now.
Nina Huchthausen (04:47.438)
Yeah, and be creative and becoming that brand strategist and designer for small purpose driven businesses in the health and wellness space. Why does that matter to you? Why does branding matter to me? That's a great question. So to me, branding is it's essentially the reputation of your business. So when we think about if you look at your own business,
and think about what do your customers and what do the people that work with you or interact with your business, what would they think about your brand at the end of the day? That's essentially your reputation. And that is something that we can strategically.
I guess, strategically build out ourself in the sense of we can use certain tools and certain strategies to make sure that our audience is aligned with our brand, that we are attracting the right audience, that we are telling the right messages. And I think...
Understanding all of the intricacies and all of the consumer psychology that goes into building a brand is what makes me really love doing this and is where I find the importance because yes, you can create a amazing product with incredible value, but if you don't know how to build a brand, if you don't know who your audience is, how to speak to them, how to...
design your brand so that appeals to them, then you're just going to get lost on that shelf. You're going to get lost in the sea of the same. It doesn't matter if your product is better quality than your competitors. They're most likely still going to beat you if they've put all of that inner work into building a strategic brand. So true, because at the end of the day, and I know like for a lot of business owners who kind of start off,
Nina Huchthausen (06:59.949)
I think it kind of gets lost because you're so ingrained in making the product, right? You're focused on, because that's, where does it start? I've never heard from anyone that their business started because they were thinking about a specific customer and then decided, okay, well, how can I serve that customer? Most makers, right?
fall into business because they love making something and they keep making it and then they were like, oh, you know, my friends and family kept telling me I should sell it at a market. So you started selling the thing that you're so in love with at a larger scale. And then you start figuring out, oh, well, there are certain people that are attracted to this. But I think that's really the,
point where you have to start stepping back and then start sort of having to niche in and get really strategic about who am I doing this for? Because otherwise, all sorts of people can stop at your market store, right? Yeah, anybody. And if you if you're trying to make your product attractive to any random person that happens to be at the market,
it's gonna be vanilla because because every human is different right so I kind of see that step that you then take with our tribe members and anybody else that you serve is then really helping them to be like okay you have tested your product in market and people are loving it.
But let's now get strategic on who specifically we're trying to attract because we do know if we can sort of hone in on a specific persona, there are millions of that type of persona out there. But then you kind of make them the product ultra attractive and sort of like popping out of what you call the sea of the same.
Nina Huchthausen (09:18.925)
So when they are looking for, say, a granola, it's not just like random granolas on the shelf, but there will be the one that almost speaks to them. Yes, exactly. When you have done branding, and you will explain your magic in a second, I kind of see like when you've done your job right, whatever that job is, we haven't even discussed it, right? And you know that...
for Mary's product, me, Nina, I'm the audience. If me, Nina, if I'm going in store and I just like scan the aisle, there'll be a product that kind of starts speaking to me. Right? But can you explain what do you do or consider so that that specific granola starts speaking to me? Yeah. Yeah.
Before I move into exactly sort of what's involved in attracting your audience and sort of building that brand as such, I do want to note as well that just from what you were saying then, I find a lot of business owners that are at that point where maybe they're speaking to everyone, they do get scared about.
niching down into that specific target persona because they feel like maybe they're potentially limiting their brand or limiting their products and maybe they're going to lose customers doing it that way. But I think it's great to think about it in the context of there's how many million, billion people in the world. If we're targeting one specific persona, there's still going to be.
hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of that specific sonar out there in the world anyway. And so instead of indirectly targeting everyone, you're directly targeting this one specific person that instead of someone sort of having a look at you across the shelf and thinking, oh yeah, I might pick them up. It's gonna be that specific person that you're targeting is gonna see you, see your product on that shelf and they're gonna feel aligned with it.
Nina Huchthausen (11:38.061)
they're going to resonate with it, they're going to pick it up and they're going to become a little customer. And they're going to then continue to buy from you and become a repeat customer and tell their friends as well. Exactly. Exactly. Because it like, and there's such a great point because it feels so scary, right? To almost like putting fences up and then does that mean...
all these people won't buy from me anymore. I don't think it does, but you will, you, you'll create a much stronger magnetism. Exactly. All of those people that you really designed it for, because in all honesty, like a hundred years ago, you might be the only granola in the store. They only had one of each. If you're in there, well, you already made it. If anyone wants granola, they will get that one granola, right?
But now they are like 10, 15 in an RGA. I mean, an aisle, an aisle of granola. If they were all vanilla, like if they were all just kind of like talking to anyone, we'd probably just go by price. Yeah. Then it, then it, the granola becomes like oil. But if you don't want to be like, like oil, you know, but more, more, more attractive.
You have to have a certain look that is attractive to a specific human. Exactly. And if you actually want to get stocked in sort of those larger retailers and centres as well, you need to have that differentiation. Whereas if you are vanilla, there's so many vanilla brands out there that are trying to get into these stockists and they can't.
That's where you really need to make sure that you know where your positioning is in the market, what your point of difference is, and also being able to show that through your branding. Yeah, yeah, because it's like it is really an ice to talk to so many retailers all the time for our research purposes, right? And most of the time they're like, well, I need to watch my cash flow.
Nina Huchthausen (14:02.797)
And I want to make sure I keep getting my customers back. And what keeps my customers coming back, if I have unique and different products that are really meeting their demand, what they are looking for. So they are always trying to niche in and serve their customers in the very best way. And they are never after vanilla product. They're always after premium.
high quality and different and unique. It's the same story every single time. And I think that's an even stronger argument because if at some point you really want to get into retail, wholesale, distributors, you have to tick those boxes. Yeah. Otherwise, you'd just be continually trying to get into these stores and.
Yeah, if you don't change the way you look at your brand and understanding your audience, understanding your positioning, understanding all of the intricacies, then you're just going to be getting the same answer from everyone. Exactly. Nobody wants a lukewarm handshake these days. Exactly. It's kind of like that. You got to go proper. Cool. But we haven't shared yet what...
What is branding entail? Can you just pull it apart? Yes. So the way I like to explain branding as a whole is I like to use this analogy called the iceberg theory, which Nina should know about because I've spoken to her about it before. So essentially, if we think of an iceberg, we've got what's... Do you have an image that you can bring up? I can just cut that out.
Kiss. Kiss this is also then the recording.
Nina Huchthausen (16:02.765)
Yep, I've actually just pulled up a slide.
Nina Huchthausen (16:14.285)
Awesome, can you see that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. Okay. Okay. So when I think of branding, I like to refer to this thing called the iceberg theory. It's been used across marketing, across a bunch of different fields to explain different systems, different ways things work. In terms of brand, this is how I bled it out. So we've got below the iceberg, so, sorry, below the water.
which is that part of the iceberg that no one can see. We start off with your vision, mission, purpose, your values, which are all that sort of like murky part of the water, really, really deep within the ocean. So that's that sort of brand core that we have. Then we move on to your target audience, which is also known as your favorite humans. So understanding the psychology behind your target audience, the psychographics.
and then moving on to the competition. So obviously you want to be aware of who those main competitors are, both direct and indirect. And from that, we can then uncover your positioning as a brand. So this is all in order of essentially what we need to know to get to the next step. Because if you don't understand what your vision or mission is as a brand, then you're not going to then be able to identify who that target audience is.
And likewise, if you don't know who your target audience is, then how do you know who your competitors are? Because if you choose competitors that are targeting someone else, then are they really your competitors? So these are essentially all of the building blocks that we need to create that visual identity. So moving up once we understand where your positioning is, so how you different your competitors, what's...
Yeah, exactly what your positioning statement is. And as well as developing a specific personality and story and messaging for your brand, we can then move into all of the tangible assets, which is what's above the iceberg. So that's where we have your visual identity. So your logos, your colors, your fonts, your brand name as well.
Nina Huchthausen (18:39.885)
and as well as any marketing communications. So whether that is your branding, sorry, your packaging or your website or other visual communications. So when we think about brand strategy, it is essentially all of the ingredients that forms a brands to then form a strategic position within the market and within your audience's mind. Yeah.
And I think this is really powerful because what I see a lot, unfortunately, which I don't really understand, whenever I'm Googling branding for small business, I see that a lot where designers just say, OK, I will create your brand in a day.
And it's literally just logo name and then like a few brand assets and colors sort of thrown together. And you can just almost buy that. But like, if you, as you explained so well just now, if you haven't gone through the process of what do you stand for? Where are you going with this? Why do you exist? And who are you serving?
who specifically that person is. How do you know that the logos and those random colors that someone has thrown together that you kind of like is attracting the person that you want to serve and is attracting a community of people that actually want to buy your product and become a champion and really love you for it and become your people?
That's like throwing shit against the wall and kind of hope for something. Yeah, exactly. I think understanding as well that there is psychology behind everything. So there's color psychology. So the way we feel about different colors is something that needs to be put into account because...
Nina Huchthausen (20:59.277)
depending on who your target market is, they're going to be attracted to other colors, like some colors more than others. Likewise with your logo and your branding just in general. Nat, can we get you back? Can I see your face again, please? Yeah, I should be here. No, you're only sharing your screen. Oh, sorry. There we go. Cool.
Oh my goodness.
I'm most shocked at what I was saying then.
Nina Huchthausen (21:39.917)
Should we kick on to another question?
Nina Huchthausen (21:46.413)
Yeah, let me just have a look at my notes and then we'll continue.
Nina Huchthausen (21:52.717)
Hello. Oh my goodness.
Nina Huchthausen (22:10.541)
OK, so we've just gone through just the key elements that you really need to consider. And for me, I think it's astounding when, so to speak, brand designers actually skip the most important part of the brand design, and that is the pre -work. That is the work below the iceberg. Because it's not just the case of,
or I need this stuff for branding and yeah, maybe I can just whack this together quickly or even after. But it also sets the tone and the foundation of a successful business, meaning a business that becomes known for something. But you can only become known for something if you put out what that something is at the start, right? And that something will only come to life if,
you then start living and breathing it. And I almost see the branding part is to bring the theoretic story, the theoretic values to actual life and help you live it. And that's why I think to me, why does proper branding matter is because it
builds the foundation of a solid business that is able to grow versus, to me, if you skip that step and you just choose random colors and random something, number one, you will always be tempted to change it because you got no reason as to why you chose the orange or the pink or the green. Why did you choose it? Because just someone whacked it together for me and it was cheap.
Yeah, because anybody else comes along said, Oh, I don't really like your green. How about blue? You might be like, Oh, maybe I should go for blue or maybe I should go for that. You're going to have the actual foundations behind why these are the branding elements for your brand. Exactly. Because they don't communicate anything for you either. Yeah. All they are is the color blue. But any successful brands is like they chose.
Nina Huchthausen (24:36.717)
the pink for a reason, and it has a deep, meaningful story. And when you keep sharing the story and use the pink, it kind of matches energetically. It's a harmonic dance versus a clash. But if you don't have a story and you just have something random put together,
there's no, it'll be really hard for you. Exactly. Or to create deeper meaning as to why should I even buy your product? Why should I love your product beyond the price or kind of like what's in it? Because there's another granola that is very similar to you. And that's
speaks to me more, I will go to them. And I think it's a shame when we kind of do not allow ourselves to take that step just because we want to get our product out quickly. And in fact, I've done some numbers in another podcast, and I will link that here.
Because if you do it as a numbers game and you get your branding right, from what I've seen, you can really elevate a product from playing in the average price arena into the premium price arena just by really reiterating through your above the iceberg elements of.
colors and fonts and logo, if that's put together well, it can really communicate and elevate the value perception of the product and communicate to us in a way that randomness just can't. And to me, I find this fascinating. I'm curious to hear from you. What types of brands have you worked with that has really been able to take
Nina Huchthausen (26:55.213)
their brand, their brand perception from kind of average to freaking amazing. Yeah. Yeah, I guess someone that comes top of mind for me, I have a couple in terms of a product based business, I would.
Yeah, I would definitely probably think about a sustainable candle business that I worked with, I think it was mid last year. So they had been in business for I think about two years now. They'd just been working at market stalls on the weekends. The founder of it, the candle maker, she was still working full time. It was more so a hobby on the side that she was hoping to build up.
She'd done all of the branding herself. She'd done all of the labels. She had no boxes for her candles yet. And she was at the point where she was wanting to stock within larger retailers, but she knew she hadn't positioned herself well enough through her current branding and visual identity. So we had a little bit of a chat around what we could do.
that works for her and also with her budget, with her financial situation, what would make most sense to her. What we ended up doing, which was quite interesting and sort of like an innovative approach to her branding and her packaging design was she essentially had, I think it was about 10 different candles and a few other.
lifestyle and home sustainable products. And she didn't have the budget to have 10 different boxes or 20 different boxes in different sizes with different information on it. So essentially what we did was we created one universal box. We left space on the front so that she could then use a template that I created for her to print off labels.
Nina Huchthausen (29:11.053)
to label the different products. So now she had a professional box design to put all of her candles in, as well as refresh branding to go with that, that she could then pitch to stockists without also spending the money on having 10 to 20 different sized boxes. She could just keep using the same ones and use the templates that I provided. So it was efficient for her. It was...
financially better for her in that sense, but she just up -leveled her brand massively through that sort of mini rebrand and through strategically positioning herself as more professional and not just another candle brand at a market store. When I last spoke to her, she'd gone from being in, I think she was in five,
really small stockist at that time. And I spoke to her in February, so I think about four months later, and she was already in 15 all up. So she practically tripled her stockist and she was selling a lot more to some larger ones as well, which was awesome to hear about. Yeah, I would say that was a very sort of small way that I helped a brand.
I think have quite a large impact on their business. Yeah. And I think that like what I love about that approach is really that it doesn't have to mean a huge budget and five months of like big work, but it's really doing the below the iceberg works to then really align.
not just from a brand, but from a business perspective, where are we going? Who are we talking to? And what is my uniqueness? I think you're using the word positioning. I love the word uniqueness because it really, there should be something that is, that we can pull out that makes it really unique and different for people to kind of feel like, who, who, I want it. Like that, that's sort of like, this is different.
Nina Huchthausen (31:33.133)
All right, this is different. Now we're talking, right? And sometimes it's just a few parts, a few elements. And maybe in her case, that box and the way you aligned the logo, the label, and everything that she already got to create that sense of magic, I think that it's just so amazing.
That's the fascinating thing, right? But you have to have a strategic eye for that. And you only ever get to that point if you understand the reason, the ethos, the values, and all of that stuff, right? It's kind of similar with, I think, creating spaces, right? Or setting up a house when it's really well designed versus
just random furniture put together, you kind of like step into that house and you're like, oh my gosh, this looks amazing, but it still just has a couch and pillows and a light and curtains, you know? It doesn't have anything more in it for most homes, but when someone has taken the time to arrange certain items in a certain way, it's kind of like MacGyver work, right?
Either it speaks to us or we are kind of like, this is kind of feels odd. But to most people, when you step into an energetically aligned house, it's like branding. You just like, you feel like you're just like in love. Yeah. So I love that story. And from I mean, from a monetary perspective. So if we're talking how many, because I just want to calculate this quickly to show some monetary value. She was in
How many stores? Five. So she went from five to? 15. 15. Yeah, thereabouts. Cool. Let's say because a candle, I'm just going to make this up. Let's say she sells it for like her wholesale price is 40 and she's selling it for 60. I'm just going to completely make that up, but just to share a few numbers because that's when you can see the financial value. $40 a candle.
Nina Huchthausen (33:54.221)
And so that means she's going to keep that simple. She's going to sell 10 at a time. That's 400 she's making per retailer, right? 400 times 15, that's six grand in these stockists. And of course, it's going to grow if they order month by month. What goes into her pocket before cost of goods is six grand, right? And
That is powerful, month on month, because once you have a stockist on board, talking to 15 a month and having a 10 minute check in to see, do you want to order again? Or if they're loving the product so much, they're just going to do it automatically. It's easy money. Right. But if because of your branding is kind of just like randomly put together, you can't get in and all you're left with is selling at a market.
Well, you need to visit a lot of markets and spend a lot of days to make six grand, right? That is probably two, three markets. If you're lucky, that means that is at least 30 hours spent on getting six grand versus two hours for phone call, right? By investing a couple of weeks, maybe with you.
If that's what it took. From a numbers perspective to me becomes a no brainer. But I think the key challenge is that most people don't know and don't see the value in branding unless you can really take someone by the hand and show it to them. Right. Let's say and hopefully there'll be many, many.
Product based business owners who are kind of like, I haven't invested in branding. So number one, can you just debunk like, what's the average spent on this? How much money would I need to put down to actually do the brand strategy and the brand work for my whatever business that is? Yeah, if we're looking at, so yeah, a pretty comprehensive brand strategy process as well as your visual identity. So,
Nina Huchthausen (36:22.413)
all of your logos, colors, fonts. You're looking at around the $10 ,000 mark, which can seem like a scary investment, but as Nina's even just expressed then, the sort of long -term benefits of getting that done is, you know, you can by increasing your brand recognition, your brand value,
you'll get a higher return on investment because you'll be attracting the right audience instead of potentially confusing them. It's definitely a long -term game, but that is in terms of investing with myself, that's probably where we'd be starting at for having a brand strategy included in the process. Yeah. Okay. Let's do this one again, because then you can just simply say, right,
We're looking at it sits probably between five and 10 grand on average. And the return is huge because I don't think it's a long term game because you just told me that this lady went from from five hundred dollars a month to six grand a month in in a couple of months. Yeah, it's really fast. It's actually a really fast return. Yeah. Yeah. All right.
Because it's important, right? Because immediately, by her investing 10 grand, she was able to move from about 500 a month to 6 grand a month and growing. Yeah. Yeah, now this is probably just a base level. Exactly. Exactly. Cool. So I would just ask that question again. Yeah. Okay. So to just really get to the point, because the financial investment is an important one, and then we can talk about the return. But...
Just on average, what is kind of like the investment range that people kind of need to get comfortable with? Yeah, so you'd be looking at, I would say, from the $5 ,000 to $10 ,000 mark. And in terms of return, it's pretty much straight away. Like as soon as you've had your branding complete, that's something that you can launch, you can share out to the real world.
Nina Huchthausen (38:48.461)
You now understand who your target market is, who that target persona is, so you know how to speak to them, you know what your messaging is. You have positioned yourself as that brand that you want to be positioned as, so you've got that uniqueness, as Nina was mentioning before. And having a strong brand will then attract those clients that you want to attract.
you'll then build that loyalty. You'll be able to justify selling at higher prices as well, because you will be positioned at that higher rate. And with that said, even pricing is a positioning strategy. So pricing too low can also erode trust and make your product lose value in that sense as well. But yeah, overall, branding is something that,
you should be receiving a return on fairly soon as it is a visual component. It is that sort of tip of the iceberg, the visual identity of it. It's something people are going to see straight away and they will either connect with it or they won't. And if you've worked with someone who knows what they're doing and has used strategy to strategically align your brands with your target market, then they should be
obsessed with your brand. Exactly. And if you're just thinking back about the numbers, right, the lady started with five and she had small retail accounts and kind of moved that to 15 and just in a couple months, right. Meaning she at least tripled her revenue. And if you're just like thinking about that ripple effect, because from six retailers being in,
That means you can now, the more retails you get on board, any new retailer that you speak with that is kind of similar, you can say, these guys are already loving my product. And here's why, hear the feedback statements. It will just get faster and faster and faster. Yeah. So just like the investment might feel uncomfortable, but.
Nina Huchthausen (41:09.997)
anyone keen calculating the return and the speed at which it occurs, I'll put the link in the show notes for the money side of this and the return side of it, because it's astounding. And then you can do like based on that, there is a spreadsheet as well, you can do your own calculations because it just opens doors and the members that are part of our tribe that we're supporting to get into retail and distribution.
It is incredible to watch their growth once they are really aligned and niche. Because we as humans want niche, we want different. And especially in Australia, everybody is looking for something that is different, that is unique, that is new, that doesn't make me look like the average Joe.
And that is very much in our culture. So just getting some help to really pulling out that uniqueness, I think really will take any side hustle to a serious business that people will take note of. But when is the right time? Because of course, 10 grand, oh my fucking God.
When should I invest that? Or is there a point when it's too early? Like, when's the right time? Look, I love this question. I think there are a bunch of reasons where it might be the right time for you. The first one obviously would be if you already have a product or a brand of such that you maybe created yourself.
And maybe you've reached a point of stagnation where you're not moving up at all. You're not increasing your sales. You're not attracting the ideal client or customers that you want to attract. I think this is a great point to seek out a brand strategist. As branding without strategy can really fall flat otherwise. There are many reasons.
Nina Huchthausen (43:33.165)
You might be in a position to rebrand, such as a business merger even, or maybe a change in direction, a new service or product offering. As I mentioned earlier, branding is all about the perception people have about your brand. So another way of thinking of it is, what would people say about your brand when you're not around? Because whatever that is reflected,
Sorry, whatever it reflects your positioning and the reputation you have in your consumer's mind. So your consumers, the people that are purchasing from you, what are keeping your business alive? So you wanna make sure everything you're doing is tapping into their needs. So the way you portray yourself through your visual identity massively impacts that consumer's perception. Another reason to engage with a brand strategist,
would be if you were releasing a new product or product range. Obviously, this could also mean you're speaking to a new audience or opening yourself up to a new market landscape. Having a clear understanding of the ins and outs of where your product sits in the market is really paramount. Otherwise, you can lend yourself to blending into the market. So getting lost within that sea of the same or even attracting the wrong audience, which
could be potentially what you're already doing. Third reason could potentially be that you might be feeling a bit correctionless in your brand at the moment. So if you find that you're struggling with even marketing your brands, maybe you keep switching up your colors and your fonts on your socials, on your website. You can't sort of sit on anything permanent.
When you are sort of designing new products, whether you're doing that yourself or with someone else, you haven't got a clear identity from the start and really struggling to figure out what that would be. That's the perfect time to seek a strategist because they will then run through all of the foundational work so that you yourself have that clearer understanding of who you are as a business.
Nina Huchthausen (45:59.437)
why you are, like why you are where you are, what your mission is, who you're serving, and all of these compounds are then figuring out, okay, this is my target audience, this is how I am unique within the market, and so this is how I can visually represent myself so that I look different to my competitors. I'm gonna stand out on the shelf.
And I'm also going to appeal to the right target market because I understand who all of these people are. I have a deep understanding as to who that specific human being is that I want to pick me up from the shelf. I have a clear understanding of who those competitors are that are going to be sitting next to me on the shelf. And I'm also really aligned as to who I am as a brand and what my messaging is.
which should also then be clearly articulated through your product packaging, through your website, through your socials. It really is just a compounding effect of understanding all of those inner intricacies and layers of a brand to then be able to visually present that and even verbally present it through your tone of voice and your messaging. So if you're feeling like you're unclear in any of that, if you...
are releasing a new product or service, or you're moving in a different direction as a brand, or you're attracting the wrong audience, or maybe you don't know what's going on, but you're just struggling in business and you're not getting enough sales. All of these could definitely be reasons to speak to brand strategists, even just jumping on a call with them and telling them,
what your problems are, what your issues are, and they can either say, hey, this is something we can help you with, or, okay, this isn't something we can help you with, but we can push you into the right direction. Awesome. So what I'm hearing from you is everything that you showed that's below the iceberg, I don't need to have the answers to that in order to work with you. Yeah, exactly. That's what we figure out together.
Nina Huchthausen (48:23.949)
So when working with a brand strategist, a big part of it is, so we essentially start off with a bit of a workshop. So it really is just like a massive brainstorming session. We sit down together, whether in person, over Zoom, whatever it is. And I have a bunch of different sort of strategies and templates to really figure out what these,
any intricacies are of your brand to really grab all of these thoughts out of your brain because they are in you at the end of the day. You just might not be able to figure out how to articulate that and how to get that out so that it makes sense. So as a brand strategist, I take all of this information from you. I do my research into your competitors, into who that target market is from what you've told me, from what I've gathered myself.
And I put this all into a beautiful document for you to then review yourself and to see whether you feel aligned with it. Because if this is who you are as a brand, if that's represented through the strategy, you'll know because at the end of the day, it's your brand. You should then feel aligned to that. And then once we understand all of these factors, that is then going to help us.
figure out that visual direction and that verbal direction for your brand and moving into that above the iceberg work. And then as an outcome will come out like magic, the line packaging, the aligned logo, the aligned fonts, the aligned colors, and you will then add that to the website. You will then create social assets. You will then create,
email newsletter, acid, you will then create the the Wobbler, whatever it is. Right. Exactly. That's an outcome. Right. It's like all these other building blocks that you do equals. Here it is. Exactly. And with a brand strategy, it should really be something that you can take with you ongoing to then refer back to so that when you are sort of doing your own
Nina Huchthausen (50:48.269)
marketing and socials and even speaking to stockists and other people, you understand how you speak as a brand. You understand this is my mission statement. These are the core values. And this is the direction that I'm going as a brand. And I can now clearly articulate this to everyone because from a consumer's perspective, you might think, OK, I can just put up
one post about my mission or about this is our point of difference as a brand. If you look at your entire audience, probably not even half of them are going to see that post. You might post it five times thinking that I'm being super repetitive now, I'm being really annoying, like I really shouldn't be doing it this often. But odds are, I think they say it takes up
to seven type points for someone to actually convert and buy from you. So you want to be repeating that messaging because it's through consistency that you will gain that trust because consistency will then form a particular picture within your audience's mind. So they'll perceive you a certain way. And through that, you will create brand recognition. You will create brand trust.
which then moves into loyalty. And these are all different steps into building that strong custom base and to building that strong brand.
Awesome. And I mean, at the end of the day for.
Nina Huchthausen (52:32.109)
And I know for myself, when I started my first business, I think for the first like six, seven months, I didn't have any branding in place because I was always, I used to work with tech companies and help them scale. So I had these big contracts. So it was like kind of okay, because I was just known personally in the space. But once I had to start getting out and find customers, couldn't just say, hey, I'm Nina and that's it.
I was really struggling in like, staying true to what my company set to growth is and what it isn't, because I didn't have it buttoned down. So then it probably like for a while, it was a bit wishy washy until I was able to sit down with someone. And I think this is so
so powerful to do and you can, it's, I think it's priceless if someone can sit down with you strategically and pull out all of these things that are inside of you and map it out and then tell you this is it and kind of fence, like almost put a fence and guard your,
your company, your brand, your ethos, your what you stand for, for you. Because as a as a as a maker, as a just call it creative genius, we have a thousand and a million ideas every day. Right. And they're like these wild horses in our heads. And we are most of the time not able to say it's this, but not that. Because why not? It just keeps coming out of you. So.
I think when you are able to find a brand strategist that gets you, that has empathy for this explosion and chaos in your mind and not having this disability in ourselves to just say, this is my brand, this is what it is, what it's not, and pull out all these things already, is priceless. And I think you end up...
Nina Huchthausen (54:50.221)
And that's at least what I ended up with. And I see it in our type of is all the time with so much clarity because this is it. Oh, my goodness. It's like this no more craziness going on in your brain. And that creates confidence. That creates confidence to continuously share, share, share with other people who you are, what you're all about, why you're doing what you're doing and how your product is different, because it's now almost like.
shuffled in stone versus all these crazy thoughts and doubts. I think that's what you also really remove from the picture is the doubt. Should it be this or why not that or how about this or how about that? Because it's like, no, you have this clear defined thing.
versus this unruly, ever -expanding, crazy random creation in your brain. Bubble of mess. Exactly. You're really turning that bubble of mess into order and structure and clarity and confidence without removing the creativity, without removing the art that any makeup brings to the table. But you're just making it.
real beautiful. You're adding that touch of gold, I feel, you know, and adding that stamp of like, this is it. But like, how does someone find their brand strategist? Because I feel like it's a very personal, it's a very subjective. Yes, I completely agree. I think similarly to what you said before, because it is quite a personal experience.
you want to work with a brand strategist that you feel quite comfortable with. So I think if you're on the lookout for brand strategists, just by looking at their website, their socials, even jumping on a call with them, just getting a bit of a feel for them to see if you connect with each other. Because if you do work with them, you're probably going to be sitting down with them at some point and literally telling them all of your
Nina Huchthausen (57:14.029)
inner workings, inner thoughts to do with your baby, which is your business. And you want to be able to feel like you can share everything with this person because they need this to then be able to formulate a brand strategy that is aligned with you. So I'd definitely say the number one thing is someone that you feel aligned and comfortable with. Another thing to be looking for when choosing a brand strategist is
preferably someone who's worked in your industry before, or at the very least has an understanding. So if you're a product -based business, looking for a strategist that has worked with product -based businesses before, or even like in particular your specific industry or niche as such. So if you're a, yeah, health and wellness business.
someone that works particularly within that area because then they've got the understanding around it. They know, they potentially already know who some of your competitors are. They know who some of the common audiences are and have an understanding of your products and services that you're offering. Because I guess if you're working with a strategist or like anyone in life, if you're working with someone who doesn't understand your industry or your business,
that is probably not going to be the easiest process as such, even on their ends, because then they also have to do a lot more research. But I would say that would be the second top thing. So someone that understands your industry or has worked in it. And thirdly, I would say understanding their processes. So before you work with them,
Either if they have it on their website or their socials, either jumping on a call with them and just understanding how they work and making sure that that fits in with how you want to work. And even if they tell you their process and it's slightly different to sort of how you want to work, just tell them, just tell them, look, I'm not too comfortable doing face to face. I'd rather jump on a call for this or I'd rather do this instead of that.
Nina Huchthausen (59:41.197)
And if they're happy to adjust their processes and sort of change the way they're working to do what suits you, then amazing. But there's always going to be people out there that have certain processes and there's reasons for a lot of the time as to why they've got them. And if that isn't going to fit in with how you want things to be done, then maybe that's where you might need to be looking elsewhere. And I love
Point number three, because that's why I personally got stung in the past. Yeah, that I unconsciously, oh no, I had an idea as to how they are going to work, right? And I remember this clearly, I mentioned, okay, so can I just clarify, we're going to do this, this, and this, and all they said was yes. What I should have done is like, can you just explain your process to me without,
reframing what it would be. Because they said yes to what, because I just wanted to validate and kind of like shortcut it. And they said, Yep, yeah, yeah, that's how we're gonna do it. And it was nothing like that. And it felt, number one, really frustrating for me, because it was like, but I asked the question. Only I realized way later that I pre -framed of how I want to work. And they just agreed to that.
But I think the most important thing is to ask, how do you work and then feel into that? Does that align with you? And do you feel like that that process will make it easy for you to bring out this magic? Because it's not one plus one equals two. There's emotions at play. There's visions at play. There is, you know,
If someone doesn't understand when you say, I want more cowbell, which is what somehow kind of comes out quite often in the creative space, you're stuck. Yeah. But if you, but when you have a really good pre branding conversation with someone and you feel like they get your jokes, they, how they articulated, how they work feels good with you.
Nina Huchthausen (01:02:03.821)
and you feel like you feel comfortable that they are taking the lead and you feel like that they can lead you to where you want to get to. I think that's the most important thing. And I didn't do that right in the past. And I have definitely paid for that because I think that's one of the scary things when you're, when you're agreeing to, to, to, to do work like that. And it doesn't turn out the way you want to. So I think.
What I'd really like to encourage everyone to do their research and take their time and really connect with people. And I think point number four also look at the reviews. What did other people say? And you want to see that you want to look at their portfolio and you want to see the reviews. If they're saying, oh, you work my website is still under construction, whatever. I wouldn't do it, man, because I actually.
Oh, sorry to cut you off there. I actually had a interesting conversation the other day with someone around reviews and they had suggested, so a lot of the time the people that are going to give you reviews are probably going to be the people that are giving you positive reviews, right? So a lot of the time, the person I was speaking to, they said another way to get around that is when you're speaking to a service provider that you're thinking of working with.
ask them who their previous clients are and whether they'd be happy for you to reach out to them and ask them about their experience. And that's what they do. And I think if that's something where maybe you've even potentially been burned in the past where you've found they had great reviews, then you've worked with them, they've been terrible. A nice little shortcut. Obviously make sure that they're happy for you to speak to the clients. I just wouldn't go directly to them otherwise, but.
then you're actually getting sort of that firsthand recommendation and feedback as well. Yeah, I think that's a brilliant recommendation. And I just want to pre -frame that. No, you are not overstepping the line and you are not being too pedantic or anything like that. Because if you're putting this amount of money down and you want the return, that's
Nina Huchthausen (01:04:26.797)
I'm talking about in these other podcasts that I mentioned about earlier and that we see time and time again and with our tribe members, you got to need to do your due diligence and you got to need to be a hard ass to choose the best, to choose the one that you're like, oh my gosh, I want to marry you. You like you speak my language. You get me and I don't even need to say anything because ultimately you are translating what's in my mind on a piece of paper. If you don't get me, if you don't speak my language.
and it's not set up for success. So yeah, yeah. So listen, it's out there. Anyone who watches this, like be a hard ass in this case and find the best for you because oftentimes, and that's what I also done. I was like, yeah, I think I think he's nice. He's nice. Okay. Okay. Let's try. No, you have to, it has to be a hell yes.
I want to work with this person. I feel 100 % convinced. Because you're trying to create beautiful art, not just something average, Jo. Yeah. Thank you for making that recommendation. So of course, like you, like, I mean, we've been working together for a while and I love your work. I love your approach. So I can vouch for you. But...
Not everybody is going to align with you. Not everybody is going to align with the couple other brand strategies that we have in our tribe. And that's OK. Right? But I definitely link you and the show notes because if anyone feels like just by us having had that conversation, oh, oh, I like her. I want to have a chat with her. Then I will fully encourage that.
And of course, if you have, if you want to take your product based business to the masses and you're like, oh my gosh, well, how do I do all of these steps? How does it work? I've never run a business before. I don't have a business degree. And, you know, I'm really good at making, but I'm not really good at building, growing a business and numbers and strategic moves and deciding how to get into retail. You have distributed negotiations, all of that stuff. Well, then feel free to reach.
Nina Huchthausen (01:06:52.813)
out to us. Also, of course, put our link in there. And as we said before, Nat and I work hand in hand because we need branding to be right for business to grow. And also, there's so much work that we do on the business side. It's also really important for Nat for branding to get right. So we do the hand in hand. We take an holistic approach, you know, because I believe building, growing a business takes a tribe. Yeah.
It's never just one person. And I think that's quite wonderful. So yeah, with that, Nat, thank you so, so much for your time and sharing all your wisdom about branding. And I really hope that everybody who has a magical product, but still maybe kind of feels like, I'm a branding. Yeah. I kind of slacked off there to feel inspired now to do something about it because.
that's what's going to take and elevate your product to heights that you are probably just dreaming of. Yeah, exactly. And I may as well mention while I'm here at the moment is I also with Nina's tribe at the moment, I do offer brand audits, which are sort of like a free one hour call where I can look over your brand and find any gaps that you may have. So I'm happy to.
put that out there on this podcast as well for anyone that might be interested in that. It's in, I guess I would say like an easy sort of free way to get some actionable steps that you can take to better your branding, whether that's your website, whether that's feedback on your packaging, your overall visual identity, and also get a feel for me if you're thinking of potentially.
getting some brand strategy work done and getting a potential rebrand or even you're just starting a business and wanting to invest in that initial branding too. Awesome. Thank you so much for that offer because I mean everybody who listens is basically part of the tribe. Cool. Well, now they know again. Exactly. Well, thank you so much for your time, Nat. I really, really enjoyed. Thanks, Nina.
Nina Huchthausen (01:09:12.429)
the conversation and have a magical day. You too. Have a good rest of your day.
